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Post by tackleman on Dec 2, 2008 7:44:46 GMT -6
Joel ,
In your quest to fill the championships at the end of the year you go down the AOY list to fill it . In doing so you let guys in that did not fish the entire circut . ( Both circuts ) . I dont have a problem with that at all . Were the issue comes in is this . Did those anglers that only fished 1 , 2, or 3 tournaments put in as much money toward the championship as the guys that fished the entire circut ? How much money goes toward the championship per event ? Those anglers also put money into the AOY pot but relenqish that when they do not fish the entire circut . But when they get to qualify for the championship they are fishing for the same money but did not put in the same amount .
I know it is probably not a huge amount of cash but it would make it fair . Maybe you do pro rate it already and I am not aware of it .
Lets use Bill Mathis as an example .
Last year he fished 4 of the singles events . On your 2008 website it shows you hold $6 for championship payout .
If (and thats a big if) he would have fished on Lake Alexander He should have paid $76 to fish the Tourny $82 if he would have fished 3 and so on and so forth .
Hopefully some of the guys that were talking about it will come to my defense.
Jim
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Post by Joel on Dec 2, 2008 8:17:46 GMT -6
Good point...
10% of the entry less aoy, permit exp. and admin costs go into the TOC pot.
$100 less - admin fee and trophies costs..the matrix fluctuates these costs from 18-22% determining on number of entries. - $5 AOY - $5 Permit donation
This year that would be +/- $6.8 - 7.2 per entry that goes to TOC. I guess to even things out we could have them kick-in say $7 an event missed to fish the toc. Example ...if you fish three events them you would have to pony-up $14. I guess that would add-up if several guys got in that didn't fish at least 5 events....maybe an additional payback spot.
Comments?
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Post by tackleman on Dec 2, 2008 8:50:23 GMT -6
Good idea Joel . there probably would be enough there to payback an exta spot.
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Post by Bill M. on Dec 2, 2008 14:42:47 GMT -6
It seems to make sense on the surface what you two have discussed.
One could make the argument that if the TOC is important to you, then you fish as many events as you can to qualify.
Another argument can be made that those who only fish 2 or 3 events are actually helping those who fish 4 or 5 to make it to the TOC. So while those who fish 2 or 3 aren't putting as much into the TOC, they are essentially making it easier for those who fish 4 to make it.
The standards should be high for the TOC. I'll voice my beef again on this. Anglers who qualify should be notified at least 14 days before the TOC and be entered with money sent no later than 7 days before the TOC. Then you go down the list one by one, not come one come all after that.
Back to this discussion though. Let's also not forget that everyone has paid a $25 membership fee whether you fish 1 or 10 tournaments. That doesn't get into the payouts, but one could make the argument that hey I qualified on points fishing only 3 tournaments, why should I pay more for the TOC? I paid my entry fee and I paid my membership dues.
I think what is important is if the TOC is important to you and you want to fish it for the added money, then fish as many tournaments as you can.
The other issue with saying you have to pay more for not fishing all 5 events is that (unless something changed), only 4 of the 5 count in determining the TOC.
If you go with this suggestion, then how can you make somebody pay extra for the TOC for fishing 4 tournaments when only 4 actually count (again unless that has changed).
Another issue and maybe this has changed. Last year the winners of each tournament qualified for the TOC. In some cases those winners only fished 1 tournament and I think another fished 2 or 3. Get rid of that for sure.
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lindy
Junior Member
Posts: 19
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Post by lindy on Dec 2, 2008 18:52:00 GMT -6
Hey Jim I'm with you,thanks for getting this started.Bill you mentioned standards for the T.O.C. should be high and I agree,but when we have teams that fish only one or two events and qualify thats not high standards.As far as the winners from each event qualifying for the T.O.C. I like it it's an added bonus for winning. Joel that is a good idea.I like the idea of paying back another spot it may not pay enough to make our boats go as fast as Tuma's but it all helps. Lindy
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Post by fishinghype on Dec 2, 2008 20:48:13 GMT -6
I see both sides of the fence on this issues. For one I understand it does suck to see someone or some team pay less to fish for the same payout as other anglers that fished the entire year. On the other hand than is why they have AOY or Team of the Year Awards. Though Bill is right why punish an individual or team that fished well enough in fewer events to qualify for a championship. There no other tournament series I know of that make someone pay extra to fish a championship they qualified for because they didn't fish the entire year. Okay my bad Hesse did but then it was Hesse.
Tight Lines, B
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Post by Bill M. on Dec 3, 2008 20:55:15 GMT -6
Lindy you are right and agree with that end in terms of getting in fishing only 1 or 2 tournaments.
That would not have been the case last year in the team series except for two things that happened: 1. It was opened up to come one come all as the tournament neared. 2. A team that won one tournament and fished one tournament was invited per the rules.
In the singles series, same exact situation. I don't think in either case the one in and one win team/person showed up for the TOC, but they sure could have.
That is why I suggested something along the lines of requiring a certain number of points. Maybe 300. I don't know the answer there. You might end up with a short field though, I don't know.
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Post by Joel on Dec 4, 2008 4:49:36 GMT -6
It has always been difficult to fill the req. number of slots. Seems not everyone that fishes all or most of the events even care about a shot at the TOC. This is the same in most series events ...I know Roy when he ran BWS called nearly everyone that fished to fill the regional. Going down the list seems to be standard practice to fill the number needed for a full field whether they fish all or one event. I don't think that will ever change. The issue I see is fairness to those that contributed more to the pot. Management will address this issue at our next meeting in January. ;D Great feedback guys...keep it coming! Joel
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Post by ChuckFields on Dec 4, 2008 15:17:23 GMT -6
I agree with most of you that the qualifying standard for TOC should be set high. I think opening it up last year diminished that standard. If only the top 15 point earners qualify for the TOC, then that would seem to eliminate the problem of being able to qualify with only 2 or 3 tourneys. (Still keep the best 4 of 5 finishes)
Also, if you raised the entry for each tourney by $5 to go into the TOC pay-out, then more people might decide to try to qualify for the TOC. An extra $5 probably won't keep anyone from deciding whether or not to fish. EXAMPLE: If you charge an extra $5, times 30 anglers per tourney, times 5 tourneys, then you've got $750 extra in the TOC payout. Hell, pay TWO extra places!)
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Post by bp7135 (bob) on Dec 4, 2008 20:47:43 GMT -6
Good Point Chuck,
I agree there should be a qualification and not a "give-me, everyone show up" to fish the TOC. I also see where a straight dollar amount towards the TOC would be a benefit to those that fish the entire circuit. I would not fish one event because $10 of my entry was going toward the TOC...
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Post by tackleman on Dec 24, 2008 12:09:50 GMT -6
Joel ,
I see you have no dates set for your championships . Couple of hints maybe you could use . Super slam on 9/20 leech MBFA 9/27 Miss R
Maybe you could do the Singles championship on 9/12/09and the team championship 10/4/09
Fishing gets real good around then .
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Post by Excel Bass on Dec 29, 2008 5:12:58 GMT -6
Jim
Thanks for the ideas/dates...we should have the toc dates posted this week.
Question for those that may be fishing the s slam:
How many guys plan on fishing on Women, Poke and Leech? We may have to overlap a toc(s) one of two of those events.
J 8-)el
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Post by tackleman on Dec 29, 2008 9:01:18 GMT -6
I was planning on fishing all three of those .
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Post by dentguy on Dec 30, 2008 15:56:03 GMT -6
Not that I count, or that I will be able to fish the TOC, but I was planning on fishing all three of the S***r S***s that are in question.. Pretty sure Foster is too... ;D
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